What we (don't) have to put up with .... an individual posting as "Indi"...

More violence against a lesbian - me - on a former lesbian list serve. First he claims that this is not a discussion list and then goes on to present and discuss his opinion, expecting me to follow the "rules of engagement" after he breaks them.

Indi:

I made this request of the moderator a while back, posting the Rules of Engagement at the first of each month, which many list serves do. As we seem to forget the guidelines when tempers flare in disagreement. All too easy behind the ‘safety’ of a computer screen…attacking faceless people on the other side…the endless disregard for the rules of NOT just posting ‘news’ and event links…posting things related to our Lesbian community, and not attacking each other, particularly with respect to Transgender issues. I’d be happy to post the ROE at the first of the month if that would be helpful to Andrea. It occurred to me on the issue around hormones for transgendered identified pre-teens, that it cannot be put in such black and white/right or wrong terms. Stating ‘facts’ out of context. We are complex. I had everything to learn about this issue. I was blown away by the documentary series, “I AM JAZZ”…if you ever had a doubt about this being a reality…watch it. It has documented her life basically since she was a toddler, born male, identifying as female. And the REAL struggle she and her family had to face to come to terms with this and this decision. Not just opining about someone else because we don’t like the idea. Jazz would have died, committed suicide if she had not been allowed to transition. And though she has her struggles as all kids do, and as a kid with the complex life she leads, she is alive because she had a loving, open family and extraordinary professionals with her every step of the way. And it documents her friends who did not get that and are in so much more dysphoria as a result….even when finally they could transition, after puberty…it makes it much harder for them. Jazz is an extraordinary human being, an activist for this issue since she began to face it for herself as a child…a beacon for so many kids and adults around the world…her courage and visibility gives them hope. If you want to rail on, moralize, about what’s right and wrong for others, you have many public/political people to model after these days. But KNOW kids and families who have to struggle with gender dysphoria as children…and how many of them die at their own hand because they cannot be themselves. There are no absolutes, right and wrongs…haven’t we learned that as Lesbians? Best, Indi 

Xan:

So now Indi - whoever he/she is - is actually talking about PRE-TEENS, and specifically one very exploited child. He was FIVE, fuckin FIVE YEARS OLD when he was coerced into transitioning because why? Boys can't wear pink and love sparkles or want long hair. That means they're girls, you know. 

What the fuck did I and womyn fight so hard for all these decades just to now jam us back into fuckin boxes constructed around sex stereotypes - now called fuckin "gender"? As if calling it gender erases sex??? 

Fuckin 5 year old have no idea what being a boy or a girl really means - although they are being carefully groomed into these racist, misogynist patriarchal boxes by sex. 

Then the whole threat to parents about suicide: as if it is some kind of real step to mental health to give your child potent drugs and radical surgery that fuck with mind, body, spirit and promise to continue to fuck with mind, body, spirit for the entire rest of that child's life. 

Again the double standard here expressed by Indi - this is not a discussion list but on he/she goes to discuss. And what the fuck does Indi mean there are no absolutes, right and wrongs? Really, fuckin really? War is not absolutely wrong. Rape is not absolutely wrong. Enslaving, trafficking, incarcerating human beings is not absolutely wrong? Justice is not absolutely right? Sovereignty, agency, liberation, self-determination is not absolutely right? 

And somehow "we" learned that as lesbians??? REALLY? What the hell does that mean? Of course there are absolutes - didn't he/she say we have rules of engagement? Aren't they an absolute? As are brown eyes and green leaves turning red on maple trees during the fall, sunshine and moon light. What a stupid idiotic thing to say. 

This is my response to him alone, not the whole group because I 'respect' the rules of engagement: Why do you get to post this long rant about your feelings, thoughts, ideas yet advocate for the silencing of my post which merely reflected info from a documentary - info that obviously pushes your buttons so drastically you want me admonished for posting, not to mention threatens your perspective so much you have to discuss it while acknowledging this is not a discussion list?

Furthermore, how do you acknowledge that there are many sides & no totally right or wrong but you want to silence what you perceive as "my side"? 

Have we ever had a conversation where you've heard my side? 

Let alone an in depth sharing - remember when consciousness raising groups were are norm, when critical thinking & centering womyn & girls were are touchstone? 

Or are you willing to ride roughshod over those values to take over: the conversation let alone the framework? 

You must be a man as you seem to have missed all that feminist cr we engaged in

I don't get it. I invite you to explore further. Note that I'm not using the list to "discuss" this but am sending to you & you alone.

Here is another response to Indi from a thinly disguised male person whose email is Mer maid - okay - and signs "E". For those of you who don't know the mermaid perverts - and believe me, they are the lowest kind of pervert, advocating for the 'transitioning' of children younger than 5, fuckin pedophiles.

Mermaid:

Thanks Indi, I appreciate your post and agree until you've walked in someone else's shoes (especially of the most marginalized) you have no idea what their experience is like.

The anti trans and intersex hate mongering is what started this discussion, once again rearing it's ugly head in this group. Please remember that when responding to this discussion, wishing it wasn't happening.

If I moderated this group I would handle it differently, but I defer to the mods to decide how to handle transphobic hate speech when it arises.

Cheers

Xan:

Xan:

IF this person was a lesbian, he would know that we know what it's like to be the most marginalized people as lesbians, even white lesbians.

Then again, following the transgender agenda fad, he characterizes my post as "anti trans and intersex hate mongering". 

Furthermore, he recognizes that the lesbian gender critical voice has been silenced but it's now "rearing it's ugly head" - it is? really?

And of course he goes on to label my post as "transphobic hate speech" - and this is supposed to have me shaking in my boots and shut me up.

Just to reiterate, I am neither transphobic nor did I use hate speech.