I’ve new
neighbors, two young Jewish guys – one Israeli, the other from the u.s.
When I asked
Elie, a new UCB student, what he was studying, he said u.s. history. Of course,
I asked the white version or the people’s version. He never heard of Howard
Zinn’s “The People’s History of the u.s.”.
I feigned
horror and asked how could he be a student of history and not know about Zinn’s
book.
This led us into
a conversation about racism. In the defense of the white history we are all
taught, he told me slavery was over and he doesn’t know why Black people aren’t
over it.
I said “See –
that’s what’s horrifically wrong with history in this country: first of all,
most white people have no idea what our true history is and has been; secondly,
we know a lot of lies, propaganda, myths – so much so you can tell me with a
strate face that slavery is over.
I then protested
that slavery was not really ended: it just morphed into different means to ensure
white domination and while seizing, destroying and controlling freedom, equity,
and self-determination of Black and brown people.
He insisted
slavery was ended by Lincoln so I asked him if he’s watched the documentary “13th”
by Ava Duvernay. He said he did but he wasn’t impressed. O M G
My heart sank.
Elie knows I’m
a daughter of survivors of the holocaust so he asked me how do I feel about
germans, as if this is some kind of relevant measuring stick as to how Black
people should feel about whites.
He tried to point
out how germans have recovered, made amends and have moved on – like white
people here.
I didn’t answer
but he seemed to be of the mind that if Jews can “let go” of hatred of germans
and what they did to our families and people and move on, so Black people
should also put everything behind them and get on with life.
He went into
claiming we have laws that prevent racism. I needed to postpone the conversation at
that point but promised to continue.
This is a
bright young man, UCB student and a student of history.
Here is a
subsequent text exchange – not the end of the conversation, but I’m taking a
breather.
Me:
What year did
it become illegal for Jews to possess gold or silver in Germany? Was that the
same year that stores/businesses owned by Jews were smashed and stolen by
germans?
And what year
were those laws revoked?
Elie:
I’m not sure re: year. Probably
1935
Me:
And do you know
when those laws were lifted?
Elie:
After the war presumably.
I’ve avoided learning about WW2
nazi germany so I’m no where near an expert
Me:
Ok so maybe 10 years. And when were
reparations granted?
Elie:
No clue
Me:
But Elie you
want to compare my feelings about 10 years of german violence with Black people’s
feelings about years of slavery, incarceration, Black Code Laws, Jim Crow –
all the centuries and decades of violence, exploitation, genocide, slavery, the
racism lasting generations and not ‘just’ a decade.
The germans –
ESP the young people – worked hard to make amends, to recognize, catch and
almost silence the nazi arm, to pay reparations for harm done.
Even though
this country enslaved generation after generation of Black people, not one
penny of reparations has been or even was paid. In fact, after “liberation” law
after law was crafted and institutionalized to change the face of slavery while
enforcing the intent of slavery: which is and always has been to deprive Black
people of their freedom and ensure this country is a country benefitting whites.
I’m continuing our
hall conversation – thanks for dialoguing.
Elie:
Right and we didn’t discuss
reparations but the difference is that there are Holocaust survivors still
alive and no former black slaves alive right now. I don’t hold any particular
view on reparations because I haven’t studied it but it just seem useless to
me. What’s the point of it?
But also re:Germans – I don’t
look at the germans as regular people, as opposed to Nazis because they paid
reparations to survivors. I look at them as regular people because they *are*
regular people in a regular much different country than last century.
Reparations are meaningless, they sure as heck didn’t bring back 6 million
Jews.
Me:
Elie – you seem
to want to think “snap” that after 250 YEARS of creating and building a country
on the policies and practices, engrained into law as well, of both genocide and
slavery (not to mention the multitude of military invasions from 1799 on) we
could pass an amendment and that’s enough to end slavery, liberate Black people,
and erasing centuries of white domination?
It’s a little
similar to those goyim who say the holocaust is over so there’s no anti-Jewish
racism.
You brought up
the germans having “moved on” comparing with us here. I only mentioned
reparations to point out that the german people responded so much differently
to their participation in the horrors of the holocaust than white people here
responded to the horrors of racism.
You want to
stick to the belief that slavery is over. I’m trying to point out to you – as the
documentary 13th documents – the practice of slavery merely morphed
into other even more insidious let alone more beneficial forms for whites.
If slavery was
over, when do you think the KKK was formed? The Citizens Council? The Black
Code Laws were instituted? Jim Crow? The New Jim Crow?
In my lifetime
my girlfriend and I had a white guy aim a rifle at us at a gas station telling
us she had 20 minutes to get out of town before sunset. You know about that
law? I didn’t.
I recommend “The
Color of Law” by Richard Rothstein (another nice Jewish boy!) although if “13th”
didn’t provide a different framework for you to view racism, maybe his work won’t
either.
It’s a long
book but there’s also a like 20 minutes film called “segregated by design” dot
com (I think) that reveals recent racism instituted in practices and law.
Thank you soooo
much for taking the time to continue this dialogue.
Elie:
What does “liberating black
people” and erasing white domination mean? What laws would do such a thing?
And I’ve never said there is no
racism, I just don’t think it’s as prevalent as some say (it’s widespread for
sure, but not to the levels some seem to think).
For instance, you mentioned
systemic racism. Systemic racism means that there are laws in place that
disproportionately oppress black people (it doesn’t reuire a bad person or agency
to execute these laws and oppress black people, it just so happens to do so.)
So my next question is, what is
the law that is systemically racist? Point it to me and I’ll fight to get rid
of it.
And thank you as well for
discussing this with me.
Me:
First tell me
exactly what racism do you see or are you aware of? You say you know racism
exists so how does it exist? In what ways?
Elie:
I see racism among people in our
society, not in laws. My point is that if you show me the law that’s racist then
my mind will probably change.
Me:
So you are
saying you see racism as the prejudices of individual people and if those
individuals now longer existed or were somehow educated to not have racist
attitudes, racism would not exist?
Elie:
No, racism will always be here –
nothing can be done to eradicate it (see anti-semitism). Obviously it can be
limited (see the last 50 years in our country).
But again you argued that racism
is systemic, could you explain what that means so we can discuss from the same
starting point?
Me:
From what I can
tell, you are denying racism is systemic. And are saying racism is a matter of
individual attitudes. Is this right?
Elie:
Again, I’ll need you to define
systemic racism for me so we know we’re talking about the same thing.
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