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Work 4 Peace,Hold All Life Sacred,Eliminate Violence! I am on my mobile version of the door-to-door, going town-to-town holding readings/gatherings/discussions of my book "But What Can I Do?" This is my often neglected blog mostly about my travels since 9/11 as I engage in dialogue and actions. It is steaming with my opinions, insights, analyses toward that end of holding all life sacred, dismantling the empire and eliminating violence while creating the society we want ALL to thrive in

Thursday, December 31, 2020

What we (don't) have to put up with....Randy: a MAN on a LESBIAN list

This is another response to my post to a formerly lesbian list serve encouraging folks to view the documentary "Gender Ideology" by State News: 

 From Randy: To our Moderators: I honestly don't understand why she has not been removed from this list serve; she perpetually spews hate towards trans women. Yes, this is a list serve for Lesbians, but it is not exclusively a Lesbian Separatist list serve. I've had enough of her hateful dogma, & hateful agenda. She constantly uses this list serve to attack the trans community, & now intersex people. ANYONE who identifies as a Lesbian has been welcome here; posts such as hers are inappropriate; they don't send a very welcoming message. It's time for her to go! Please do something about this; enough is enough! ~ 

So first of all, even though Randy says “to our moderators” he posts this to the entire list instead of to the moderators. Secondly, this list is not supposed to be a discussion list so technically he should not have responded to the entire list. 

Note that he says the list is not “exclusively a Lesbian Separatist” list serve even though it’s a list for Lesbians including “ANYONE” who identifies as a Lesbian… Really? Fuckin really? 

So Randy is saying any fuckin man who “identifies” as a lesbian is welcome here. But a WOMON who has been a lesbian for her entire fuckin life needs to go. This is what “inclusivity” means to these men and their handmaidens: as long as men are included and their inclusion never questioned let alone challenged – and nothing is said that is womyn-centered or scientific as in biological facts. 

This is my response posted to Andrea, the moderator, and to Randy: 
How dare you Randy post such vile defamation lies. 

I have NEVER advocated hatred or violence against ANYONE, not even tRump nor police nor our military let alone any trans person - on this list nor anywhere else in my life. YOU are spewing hatred & advocating censorship against me. 

You claim this is a list for lesbians yet you want me silenced? I can be on the list as long as I'm silent & don't post anything? 

I'm old Randy. I know fascism. Your ugly response to the documentary info I passed along, to attack me, to advocate for my expulsion, is nothing less than fascist. 

YOU are using this list to attack me. I use this list to connect with my lesbian community, to share resources & information: NOT to be publicly attacked by some stranger. 

Furthermore, I have read over & over that this is NOT a discussion list. If you did have issues with me, you should have contacted ME, or at the very least, the moderator. 

I trust you will cease this personal attack against me, if not apologize just as publicly for your attempts at censorship & your defamation of me - before I'm forced to take more assertive steps. A Conscious New Year to ALL! Xxoo 

Okay, full disclosure, so maybe I did hope that when tRump got covid-19 it would be the fatal strain... I have received no reply as of yet from either Andrea nor Randy.

This is from the guy calling himself Mer Maid and signing "E" 
Seriously she is making this list uncomfortable and unsafe for many of us. You know the German saying, you have 10 ppl at a table and one nazi you have 11 nazis? Thats the environment the moderators are allowing to happen here. Please remove her from the list. Yes I compared her hateful views with nazism, and before you get your panties in a twist I'm a Jew myself who lost many relatives in Warsaw. I'm 100% sick of the hate speech allowed on this list and at this point blame the mods for letting it happen. 

 So he's comparing my views - as a daughter of survivors of the holocaust - with nazism. That's real for ya.

What we (don't) have to put up with...or how to have the 'difficult' conversations with people who don't want to dialogue ...but really do

Backlash STILL for daring to post the Gender Ideology documentary on a probably 30 year old (or whenever we started building community this way) formerly lesbian list and now an 'whoever identifies as a lesbian list". At least Ardys (in green) was willing to carry on the conversation without threatening violence. 

Ardys: 
There is much controversy about Trans stuff in the SF Bay Area anyway. Can we all agree that Trans are people? I do admit as an elder that there is much stuff I do not know about trans. Xan

Xan:
Ardys - this isn't re:trans stuff - it's about centering womyn & the erasure of womyn & lesbians. Period.

I don't understand where you got the need to agree trans are people? That's like saying let's gree a tree is alive. It doesn't make sense - but not much does make sense these dayz!

Ardys:
Basically, I disagree.  Believe that the increasing commonality of trans stuff will help women/lesbians in general. I am most basically a feminist- something many anti-trans lesbians seem to have a hard time with. 
If you wish to continue this conversation it is your business.  Do you know that all trans stuff is being moderated on this list.  You seem to have the same address as an admirable but anti-trans dyke.

Xan:
You cannot call me anti-trans. I am not. I am pro-women. Do not misidentify me. Thank you.

Ardys:
Seems as if we cannot discuss this. 
Xan:
Why do you think we can't discuss this?

Ardys:
Interesting, you & maybe Zann discuss racism, but not anti-transism. Anti-Transism & racism are similar. Yes there are folks who kill cis-women couples & those who kill Tranz.  Whoever kills whoever this is wrong.  I guess we can agree about this.

I REALLY do not believe that the Women's movement was not destroyed by trans, some of which deny surgery.  The reasons are complex.. 

I am Old & Unashamed of it.  This is most likely the reason that I do not understand many trans. 

Heard 2 F to M's discuss top surgery.  I do not understand this.  I am not at all against those with breast cancer getting both breasts removed  When I was working I often wore scarves so that my breasts were not checked out, but I did not consider surgery.

You still want to discuss this with me?

There are many

Xan:
You're right - we don't discuss anti-trans - it doesn't exist: in ourselves, our household, our community.

We discuss biology, same-sex attraction, and womyn's rights. 

The bottom line difference we have is whether you believe womyn are entitled to, need womyn-only spaces, spaces not just safe from male violence and domination, but safe for womyn to recognize and heal from the trauma of misogyny, racism, heterosexism. 

IF we lived in a society that did not employ racism and sexism to make womyn hate our bodies, feel inferior, and STILL be targets of such tools of oppression - then of course, there'd be no "gender" boxes to shove people in.

Ardys - do you REALLY believe all it takes to be a womon is to "feel" like one? i've never felt like a white person, so does that make me not white?

And please, do you think i don't know what it's like to be ashamed of my body, my big breasts, my weight, my blood? Come on - every fuckin girl in the u.s. knows that - we're carefully taught that. And it is those teachings that feminism brought to light and tore apart.

To actually claim a little boy who loves dresses, sparkles, makeup is now a little girl is soooooo fucked up and counter everything our liberation fought for and gained. 

Of course i want to dialogue. critical thinking and exchange is another hallmark of feminism.

Ardys:
Unlike trees trans & other folks dislike people not speaking to them & generally rejecting  them.

Xan
And isn't that soooooo male - not just thinking they're ENTITLED to womyn speaking to them & to womyn's acceptance but also they get to DEMAND womyn speak to them & accept them.

Ardys - I know we've not agreed on everything thru out the decades but I've never thought we disagreed about womyn. Surely you still recognize misogyny when you see/feel it?

Why are you insisting I have to give my attention & acceptance to men who identify as womyn simply because I am a womon & womyn are expected to 'include' every fuckin body or be threatened with violence?

Ardys:
Critical thinking causes me to me to realize that anti-trans prejudice is a prejudice like many other prejudices.

Xan:
Oh for fucks sake - prejudice means to pre judge. I have no preconceived notions but experience & knowledge. 

2nd of all I already told you, I have feelings about the erasure of womyn & lesbians by the TRANS AGENDA - not transpeople. 

I have feelings about womyn who hate their bodies so deeply & feel so unable to do whatever they want in their own body but instead need to pass as men, womyn who are taking toxic synthetic chemicals never approved for females by the FDA, & undergoing drastic elective surgery that destroy sexual pleasure let alone reproductive choices & all the non-reproductive benefits the female sex parts provide for the entire miraculous female body thru out all the cycles of life.

I don't give men any thought, energy, time. Is this not the right we fought for so hard all of our adult lives? Why now that men are insisting they are women do I still not have that right?

It's the same old shit. When womyn first organized for womyn-only spaces we were called men haters. Now we're called names I won't repeat & violence is called down upon us.

IT'S NOT ABOUT THEM. As much as that is sooooooo unacceptable because every fuckin thing HAS to be about them.

I neither want nor demand male approval or acceptance. Why should they? Oh right, they're men & that's what men do - with the support of women who believe it's their duty to take care of men & force other womyn into that same oppression. 

Ardys:
Definitions of men & women have changed.  What if that awful Hollywood director had run into some trans? They may have hit back.

Xan:
No - definitions of men & women have NOT changed. Definitions of gender & gender boxes may have changed but sex has not, cannot, never will change. Technology does NOT determine sex, biology does. Society determines sex/gender ROLES, etc.

Ardys - you KNOW a skirt, pink, long hair etc does no more make a person 'woman' than pants, short hair, beard does NOT make a person a man.

A man who steps outside his prescribed male gender box should be our allies, not our bosses nor the ones who change the definition of woman. Don't you see that?

Ardys:
I disagree.

Xan:
What exactly do you disagree with? 

The issue is do you believe womyn who are born, grow up, & mature as females in our society have the right to safe spaces, single-sex spaces, events, shelters, even list serves for ourselves & ourselves only? 

Do you believe people who identify as trans have the right to have those particular safe spaces for themselves & themselves only? 

Or are you so hypocritical & self-effacing to believe that only trans people have that right & not those of us born female (not to be redundant)?

Ardys:
What do you suggest?  DNA tests at all events.  This is expensive. 
Also in previo

Xan:
It's CHROMOSOMES dear heart you're talking about. Chromosomes determine sex.

Only an adult who is deeply lying to himself doesn't know what sex he is - & lying to everyone else & pathetically getting that lie reflected back to him because other people are sooooooo afraid of being called transphobic and then there's the real fear of male violence.

99.99% of the human population is NOT hermaphrodite; less than 1% of the human population have abnormality of gonads BUT they are all within the single sex. In other words Ardys, every 'abnormality' is related to their biological sex.

But we not talking scientific facts are we? You want to promote the most ridiculous, misogynist, even racist idea that a human being can be born in the "wrong" body. Just like fat people, tall people, disabled people - oh & what about Black people, Native people. Yup right - we're ALL born in the wrong body - except rich 'beautiful' people.

Geez Ardys - there is nothing logical or reasonable about this "wrong body" mantra of this trans agenda EXCEPT society's 'norms' pressuring people to hate our bodies & why? You of all people KNOW why the powers who manipulate & dominate our society want us to hate our bodies. 

But I get the DNA reference: like when men will not be honest about their sex & try to lie & fool everyone into thinking they're not male.

So when I want to have a party to meet other lesbians to maybe fall in love with or if we have a support group for womyn who've miscarried or an event for womyn survivors of child sexual violence, some men might try to pass as women & then how will we tell? 

You're right there - another nail in the nature of men that makes them soooooo hard to trust.

If/when people are honest we don't have to look in their pants. What a genius way to shut down a conversation in a society that has issues re:being naked & discomfort talking about yonis. But peens we can talk about forever. 

But it's not always about the peen.....

Thanks again for being willing to have this very dangerous conversation. Xxoo

Ardys:
Pay for a chromosome test.

Xan:
Oh for fucks sake, we're not talking about intersex people {when doctors can't figure out from looking how their sex organs are going to develop - yes, certainly a chromosome test in the beginning would answer that certainly} - we're talking about men who want to been seen as women.

Ardys: